I’ve written about the “Redpilled Manosphere” before, most notably when Matt Forney announced his retirement, when making fun of Andrew Anglin’s weird evo-psyche JustSo story explaining how Harvey Weinstein totally wasn’t a rapist, bro, and with the whole Jack Murphy situation.

Wrapping you arms around them entirely is a bit of a challenge, but they were a loose collection of constantly online nerds who had superficially plausible theories about sexual dynamics that they never bothered trying to debunk. Probably the best examples of them – and worst offenders -were the “Pick Up Artists.” Sam Hyde made fun of them way back in 2016, and he was barely exaggerating when making fun of their “peacocking,” and general mannerisms. 

In an article about Gonzalo “Coach Redpill” Lira, I again mentioned these “PUA” dorks. Things haven’t changed since then, so I’ll happily quote myself.

If you don’t know who those people were, just imagine the biggest collection of goofballs you’ve ever seen all congregated into one space. The kind of guys who no normal woman would want anything to do with, yet whose entire identity is about slaying da hot puss, so much so that they call themselves “pick up artists.”

Again, Matt Forney was one of these “Pick Up Artists.” Quick Goy, hide your girlfriend, SgtStealYoGirl83 is coming for her! You might think she’s safe, but the redpillers know that looks don’t matter, only game.

As one more casualty of this time period, Andrew Auernheimer, also known as “Weev,” was going around telling people that he slammed multiple married 10/10 good girl librarians. How did a guy who looks like this do it?

He knew some French poetry and had that confidence, bro.

No, it doesn’t make any sense, because it didn’t happen. Weev is someone who has spent his entire existence online, and has very few real life experiences. The online garbage making the rounds in his formative years told young men that the way to slay hot puss was to memorize a few canned lines, then go up to some smoking hot girl and recite them with extreme confidence. 

This was plausible to the constantly online crowd, since good looking men tend to also be quite confident, so little Weev pretended that he was a LEET POONSLAYER, in addition to being a LEET HAXXXOR, and a LEET TERRORIST. After all, men who are great with women tend to have lots of confidence (and good looking faces, nice bodies, and good jobs), therefore confidence and knowledge of French Poetry are the only things that matters. It’s truly impeccable logic.

Don’t listen to “game denialists,” who tell you to have good hygeine, keep yourself in shape, groom yourself properly, wear clothes that fit you, and just ask for the girls number or otherwise escalate without being weird. What you actually need to do is be as physically unattractive as possible, before annoying a girl for an hour with some obnoxious routine, or maybe French poetry, while you build that attraction. Then you work your way up the seduction chain building rapport with her, until eventually you “F close,” which means have sex with, if you didn’t already know. 

That’s how it’s done. 

Why we needed a new word for “have sex with,” is beyond me, but that’s just because I live in bluepilled game denial land.

Except, it’s actually not, and the PUA Industry died because enough men figured out how totally full of shit they were. While looking for an infograph of the “seduction chain,” these guys would make back in the day – there were multiple and they were exactly as autistic as you would expect – I found a 2020 post on one of the PUA forums that sums up what happened to this scam.

But first things first. At the top of that page they have a helpful note that promises to show us how to “become a HYUGE success with teh wahmens.”

Twenty two rules for supercharging my confidence into POON DESTRUCTION of HOT FEMALES? And all I have to do is give them my first name and my email address? Count me in! 

I can’t wait to use my cocky funny routines on some 2 sets of HB9s and building rapport before Fclosing one of them and crying to myself on the ride back about how worthless my existence is.

So Suave:

There used to be 5 active PUA/Seduction Forums! Now only 1 remains

1) RSD forums used to be the most active but they no longer exist since RSD went in their new direction as life coaches.

RSD stands for “Real Social Dynamics.” They were honestly less embarassing than many others in this scam, but come on, just look at them. It’s like a bunch of thirty-something guys who want to be college frat douches, but don’t quite get it. 

Although at least these guys appeared to occasionally workout and groom themselves properly. This would make them attractive to some women provided their awful game didn’t get in the way.

I lost touch with this scene back around 2011 at the latest, with the exception of adjacent character Chateau Heartiste, who was great. Even then I could tell that the “gurus,” were morphing into “try to be slightly less weird,” stuff, combined with “inner game,” nonsense, where you imagine yourself as being alpha so the girls just magically start creaming.

This was odd, because they were ostensibly slaying all the poon with their patented “be as fucking weird as possible,” routines, so it’s hard to see why they felt the need to switch it up. Making it all the more absurd, I honestly don’t know if the graphic below is from their PUA days, or their lifecoach days. Either way, whatever advice they have for you inside will be equally practical.

Actually, I have to briefly quote an article that praises RSD just so you can see how weird this is.


Tyler Durden and Papa didn’t stop at inventing the AMOG strategy—they built a company around it. Real Social Dynamics, Tyler and Papa claimed, was their new business, and it offered a website and in-field workshops.

For Mystery, this was adding insult to injury: Not only did Tyler and Papa use his workshops as a platform to develop and promote AMOGing, but the name of their competing business was one word off from the name of Mystery’s seminars, Social Dynamics.

I am quite proud to admit that, despite hearing the term “AMOG,” and “AMOGing” over the years, I had only the faintest clue what it meant before writing this piece. According to Dictionary.com it means “Alpha Male Of the Group.”

The idea is that you should be competing with your own bros to be the most obnoxiously “dominant” one in any social situation. Whatever you do, don’t work on your grooming, physique, or wear clothes that fit you. No man has ever gotten laid at a party or club by being handsome. That’s what bluepilled normalfags believe.

After Papa, Mystery, and Style signed the lease on the Project Hollywood mansion, they posted on Mystery’s Lounge that they were looking for roommates to fill the remaining two rooms. The response was overwhelming.

They ended up bringing in three eager pickup artists (PUAs):

  1. Herbal, a 22-year-old from Austin who had made a small fortune in a gambling scheme.
  2. Playboy, a party promoter who had quit his job at a New York dance company in order to come to Project Hollywood. Playboy worked for Real Social Dynamics and Tyler to pay his rent.
  3. Xaneus, a college student from Colorado who was willing to do whatever it took to live at Project Hollywood—so he slept in a tent in the backyard, worked as an intern for Real Social Dynamics, and paid for utilities and housecleaning.

I’m surprised PoonslayerXXX and CLAM_DESTROYER82 weren’t invited.


Back to the SoSuave post.

2) RooshVForum still exists but since Roosh turned religious there’s nothing remotely about seduction/pickup on there anymore. It might as well be dead.

3) NextASF Died in May 2019 due to lack of site traffic.

I don’t know what ASF means, let alone “NextASF.” Anyway, the SoSuave post has a link to the archived forums, and I think a single screencap should do the trick to get the gist of things.

Although there’s one more thing that I found that’s important to note.

AA stands for “approach anxiety,” and was something frequently talked about by the victims of this cult. It’s also one of the main reasons why it had any staying power at all despite being so ridiculous, and is why this nonsense was strangled in the crib almost as soon as online dating became more normalized.

Because the PUA scammers/losers stressed being “cocky funny,” and “confident,” while “demonstrating high value (DMV),” they put the idea out there that your behaviour had to be nearly flawless in order to get girls. Then, because the men who believed any of this bullshit had little to no experience with women in the first place, this placed further anxiety on them before talking to girls.

As a result, many of them never went up and talked to girls in the first place, and if they did, assumed their rejection was due to them not “doing game” right, as opposed to them not being attractive, her type, too weird, etcetera. The cult would reinforce this with their “you must just be a feminist game denier,” if you pointed out the obvious. Occasionally, some of these guys were so gaslit that they actually attributed their successes to their PUA induced weirdness, and not just some girl liking them anyway.

The worst of this garbage competes hard with trannies for most cringe stuff on the internet.

After a brief bit of Googling I found the “PUA Cringe” YouTube channel, last upload two years ago. The above video is unironically put out there by the delusional “Pick Up Artists.” It’s not a parody, it’s some delusional PUA’s instructional material, and is so unbearably painful that even on 2x speed it’s still unwatchable.

Again we return to the SoSuave post.

4) TheAttractionForums used to be popular but I just discovered today they no longer exist either! Does anyone know when their forum died?

5) SoSuave is the only forum that is still alive today.

The four largest “seduction” forums shutting down fits with the general impression that Pick Up Faggotry is well and gone.

Even the less weird stuff, such as what you see in the above screencap, recommended by YouTube after clicking on the PUA Cringe video, is more than a half decade in the rear view mirror. This particular strand of grift-nonsense is over.

OP, user “happyguy151,” asks what happened.

Firstly why do you think all these forums have been dying off and what has made SoSuave outlive them all?

Does anyone have any memories of using any of these old forums in the past? We’re there some you preferred more than others?

All we have now is this site and the Reddit Seduction group that is fairly active but can be extremely cringey at times.

Reddit… seducers…

A few of the comments in that thread are enlightening, some accidentally so.

Yeah, just did a google search and browsed through a few places, and some of them the majority of last posts date back to last year sometime, with the odd post sometime this year. This is the most active place that I’m at. It’s more like a tug of war between the blackpill and the redpill.
I feel the loss of these boards, and lack of interest in other PUA sites simply means the blackpill is becoming more dominant than the redpill as time progresses and people just give up. Even this board, with posters like @MatureDJ, and what I’m seeing elsewhere, I think it’s a matter of time before the blackpill takes over here too.

Another trend I am tired of is the constantly online referring to everything using x-pill terminology. Partly this is because you don’t even know what exactly they mean by that if you haven’t spent at least ten hours in that e-niche and figured out the lay of the land.

Having said that, he’s undeniably correct if he refers to “blackpill,” as men accepting that women care about looks just as much as men do, and that spending hundreds of hours “learning game,” only to get rejected by some random girls in awkward and unpleasant interactions to be an absurd waste of time.

Another user chimed in.

It had it’s moment, it was a fun moment. It gave millions of nerds more than a shred of hope just as the tech industry started to boom, and they had the money and desire to actually try to apply their robotic algorithms to pickup on drunk hot girls on sunset blvd and in miami. Toronto a bit too.

It’s incredible how long the scam played out. Enough Karens called enough mall cops and enough sociopaths got exposed (not very many), and enough weird science nerds got blown out a sufficient number of times so that it finally petered out like a exploding car rolling down the side of a cliff until it finally hit rock bottom.


Some scams have an expiration date. Back in 2005 some weirdo named “Mystery” was promising to get the socially awkward that 10/10 supermodel gash by wearing hats with feathers in it and not knowing how to put a tie on properly and some other retarded gibberish. To some borderline autistic tech geek with no experience with women, this might sound decently plausible… in 2005.

But if your brain functions properly then by now you’re going to want real evidence of men who “learned game,” and actually went from being super awkward and unlucky with the ladies, to being some broke playboy. Since there is zero evidence that has ever happened, it’s over.

Not really. PUA petered out because the premise of spam approaching was proven to be invalid.

The key thing no one in PUA wanted to talk about was the most important factor of all: looks. Just about any good looking guy could make just about any PUA theory or formula magically “work” because they were good looking.

Since most were drawn to PUA precisely because they were NOT good looking, it was quickly proven to most PUA’s that PUA theory did not work regardless of which theory or how hard they worked.

These PUA’s were hard workers, going through “boot camps,” hundreds if not thousands of approaches, thousands spend on DVD sets, workbooks etc. Until it finally dawned up on most everyone: oh yeah, cold approach doesn’t work unless you are good looking. DUH.

Ah yes, “cold approach.” This is where we get a bunch of unattractive – maybe with potential but not realized right now – guys to go up to random women, or groups of women, work through some random “cocky funny” lines they prepared, and then nervously ask for their numbers. What could possibly go wrong?

Another commenter echoes the previous commenter, although they both miss something that I believe was even more important.

I feel like it’s already happening. I don’t see that many posts about pursuing women on here. The PUA sites actually had things like FR’s and pickup strategies…this board is now about incels, simps, OLD, and random stories about single moms. I’m not necessarily complaining. But the PUA stuff was outdated a long time ago, “game” has progressed and there is a bigger division between haves and have nots (technology changed everything).

Even though people rarely use Tinder these days, that’s what is generally considered the go to example for online dating, especially for short term relationship “dating”. Tinder is famously a place where great looking men get swamped with matches, decent looking men get a tiny fraction of the attention, and normal looking men get their time wasted.

It’s also true that women get massively more likes and matches. This may be misleading, as other studies have found that the women get ghosted by the majority of their “matches,” because it’s just guys swiping right on them while thinking nothing of it.

Nevertheless, even this 6’3 semi-Chad in the experiment got just a few matches.

If Tinder, Bumble, and other swipe apps are a waste of time for this solidly above-average guy, chances are that you, dear reader, should invest even less of your time and energy into these pits of despair. This is a fairly obvious conclusion, something the maker of that video, Wheat Waffles, summarizes with the following graphic.

I’d never heard of Wheat Waffles before writing this piece, but he seems to be a part of the “Blackpill” community. Again, since I haven’t spent 10 hours watching his videos, I don’t really know what that means. However, it appears to be one of those communities where they overly focus on the importance of male looks to the point of absurdity.

Over lunch I watched a few of this guy’s videos, and it all came back to me. Essentially he’s a retread of all the tired nonsense from a decade ago, where some nerds got burnt by the “redpill” and “just game bro looks don’t matter bro,” nonsense, and went full on “if you don’t have Brad Pitt genetics you’ll be forever alone.”

This is ridiculous to the point of satire for people who actually have real life experiences, but the target audience is probably 80+% teenagers, young men, or even pre-teens who don’t know any better. Similar to the “redpillers,” who teach you that the “secret” to female attraction is that you just have to memorize a few lines and their clams will overflow whatever room you’re in due to excessive moisture, the “blackpillers,” have a few superficially plausible theories of female behaviour that, taken together, form one unholy Frankenstein of theorycelling nonsense designed to hammer one thing home.

Taken from this video.

You see, if you’re not one of the TOP PERCENTAGE of men, you ain’t reproducin’ bucko. And by “top percentage,” he doesn’t mean “top 99%,” but rather “top 10% or less,” as he repeats ad naseum in other videos.

You might think that this is immediately countered by data which objectively shows that vastly more than 10% of men reproduce. That would sort of destroy his entire argument though, so we just won’t focus on that. If we do, we’ll pretend that things were massively different before social media existed in the past ten years, which totally rewired teh females brains and made them all Suck Chad Cock Or Die Tryin’ Mega Whores.

The ’tism continues with a breakdown of the various facial reactions that “Sub 5,” “normies,” and “Chad’s,” receive from women as they go about their daily existence. You see if you aren’t at least mid, women will be angry whenever they look at you, or openly show disgust. If you’re a normie, you get to see a regular expression on her face. However, if you’re MEGA HAWT CHAD, then you get to see her instantly make stupid faces at you. This is 100% how women behave.


Lastly, if she pulls a funny face in front of you. Again, it’s playful, it’s flirtatious. And based on first impressions it looks like she’s already comfortable in front of you.

This is how women behave around men they are extremely attracted to. They instantly become totally comfortable and relaxed, then start sticking their tongues out and crossing their eyes. 

Odd, because while I’ve never been an UBERCHAD, I’ve certainly been friends with a great many men who were undeniably fantastic with women, and at various ages. What I saw, with the exception of sloppy drunk girls, was women who liked to stare at them, make boring conversation, and generally give zero indications that they were interested aside from that, except maybe standing in their general vicinity.

Turns out that normal woman who don’t have notch counts well into the millions are not exceedingly confident, and don’t like to throw themselves out there, or even give much in the way of hints, for fear of rejection. Also, I’ve had sloppy drunk girls throw themselves at me and borderline sexually assault me, despite being of relatively average attractiveness. Apparently, you don’t need to be Brad Pitt to get women wet, just like the average girl does not need to be Cindy Crawford to get your dick hard.

I get that people who only see Hollywood movies might think that girls always make it extremely obvious when they are attracted to a guy. Without alcohol being involved, that almost never happens even with the top 0.1% most gorgeous men. What actually tends to happen is that they do some trivially small thing that gives them tons of plausible deniability, like flicking their hair once every hour, or glancing their way once every ten minutes, so they don’t have to throw themselves out there and risk rejection.

Strange how all the e-guru’s who are ready to give you the dark secrets of female nature never seemed to pick up on what is common knowledge to people with almost any amount of experience in the real world. It’s so odd. It’s almost like they’re completely full of shit.

Later on Wheat Waffles blesses us with this collage of Hawt Babes who are DRIPPING WET while talking to BRAD THE CHAD. You see, they can’t stop themselves from smiling, they play with their hair, and I’m pretty sure we’re 0.2 microseconds away from both of them going cross eyed and sticking their tongues out. 

For the record, it is true that sometimes a girl having a smile fixed to her face means that she has a huge crush on the guy talking to her. Other times it just means that she’s enjoying the conversation, but in a non-sexual way. Maybe she’s just enjoying the attention. Maybe she’s using that guy to try to make another guy jealous. Worst case scenario she loathes him, but can’t find a way to excuse herself.

On the other end, a woman having a nervous look stuck on her face could mean that she really does not enjoy spending time with him and he’s stressing her out. It could mean that she’s afraid that the guy she’s with is about to pull out a knife and stab her. It could also mean that she’s attracted to him, just extremely nervous because she doesn’t want things to go wrong.

This is exactly how we would expect women to behave if we don’t think of them as some sort of weird alien species. If you thought a woman was gorgeous and she walked up to you at some social event, how would you react to her? How would you have reacted when going through puberty? Is it possible you would have been too shy to show anything much? Would you have awkwardly stood there, not knowing how to behave? Would your friends have somewhat different reactions than you, even if they were also attracted to her?

The reason why this scene from Before Sunrise is so powerful is because it is realistic. Sure, the actors are a bit too old for the characters they are playing, but people don’t come out of the womb as smooth as Hollywood actors reading a script.

This moment feels so intimate. Definitely more intimate than any sex scene or passionate kiss. The mixture of shyness, fear of being seen and judged, the hidden feelings, the restrained attraction… all of this makes the scene so unique.

Wait a minute? Shyness? Fear? Restrained attraction? B-b-b-but that’s totally not how women behave according to the constantly online Blackpill Wahmen Psyche Knowers who tell me that they actually give off absurdly easy to pick up signals to any guy they are physically attracted to like crossing their eyes and sticking out their tongues.

Yes, I am aware that I used a Hollywood movie, albeit an indie one, to argue that women do not always have gigantic “FUCK ME NOW,” signs over their heads when talking to men they want, but this scene hits differently because it is true to life, and I don’t have any recordings of real life. I did however detail that time I got the number of an “eccentric” girl while working in a green grocer, and I was so nervous that I didn’t even notice that she was very “special” indeed. 

Not the same girl, but you get the jist.

To quote myself from that article.

One day I work up the courage to start a conversation with her. About two seconds into this conversation, my brain basically explodes. My nervousness had reduced me to an animalistic state, unable to think, barely able to breathe, swallow, or not fall over. I survive the conversation by making gutteral noises, and nodding my head inanely in a way which sort of mimics human behaviour. She doesn’t appear to notice, because she is literally shaking with nervousness.

But don’t worry, Goy. Even though you’re nervous when talking to a girl, the girls will always be totally immune from that emotion when talking to guys that they are attracted to, according to the online e-right which totally has your best interests at heart.

But do not be dismayed. While Wheat Waffles is putting out videos entitled “The Dark Future: Why 90% of Men Will Be Invisible in 5 Years,” and How Dating Is Now a Zero-Sum-Game For 90% of Men,” he has a solution! The solution is that you ACT NOW and purchase his LOW COST Face Ratings and Looksmaxxing website for only $9.99 per month. That’s just the price of a cup of coffee, and it’ll save you from being forever alone.

This article has exploded in size, to the point where we haven’t even gotten to the original impetus for the piece. That would be this video, wherein a poor woman tries to have fun on a solo night out, doesn’t meet anyone, and ends up crying, only to have the redblackpilled manletsphere Chadlets laugh at her misfortune, because human suffering is funny to them when experienced by women.

Honestly, I have so much else to say about this “Blackpilled,” garbage that we might not even get there until the third piece. And you know what that means!

Buckle up buttercup, we’ve got a new series incoming.

You may also like


  1. I used to know a guy with a smashed up face from lots of fighting, he was a heroin addict, and he was nearly 7ft tall, not skinny, he was basically like an ogre. He would randomly go and piss in peoples gardens while they just watched him through the window. He was crazy,dumb and violent. He would go 100miles away to a city he never went to before with no money and no plans for where he would sleep and end up sleeping at some random womans house. He ‘got more pussy’ than anyone i have ever seen. And yet would anyone actually be jealous of him? Do you want to be him?

    Some people spiked some heroin and killed him like 20 years ago.

    not sure what this really has to do with the article, but whatever.

  2. It doesn’t take much thought to see why this particular group of fuckups and weirdos were mockingly referred to as the manuresphere by so many people. While it is good that it is mostly a fad that has come and gone, it is sad that the remnants are so twisted and bitter they are spouting nothing but demoralization to anybody who will listen (which is a frightening number).

    The weirdest thing I came across was a female acquaintance I knew who was something of a shill for PUA nonsense. I remember her discussing her fascination with the phenomenon more than once, and she even tried persuading one of my friends into “upping his game” to end a dry spell (I’m pretty sure he didn’t try it). The only explanation I can come up with is that she’s a stage actress and was probably fascinated with the performative aspect that PUAs harp on about. My other, less charitable explanation is that she’s just a dumb sloot.

    1. Back when “The Game,” came out one of my older sisters friends was talking about it in fairly positive terms. She basically took the least creepy parts, and interpreted them as normal flirting. The example she used of “game,” was to say something like “that’s an interesting shirt to wear,” instead of “that’s a nice shirt.”

      I’ve never had any other girls speak positively of this nonsense, and she was also a bit of a weird girl, although in a cute way. I think to the extent any woman, even that dumb actress sloot, thinks this stuff might work, she’s imagining a handsome man trying it on her, not some guy she isn’t attracted to in the first place.

  3. These “people?” are a series of ones and zeros who bought all that media bullsh*t in movies and TV, do they even call it “TV” anymore ? since I watch zero joo-droppings of any form. After 9-11 when I was about 30 – at least about a year later I said to hell with any dronings of official form (hollyweird and of course all mainstream newz is “official”.

    Here’s the deal – be yourself have a brain, get hobbies you enjoy, and realize all the phony sh*t and phony people aren’t worth a gram of cow dung – then you’ll attract women easily, later most-likely realizing most of them are lame as hell due to our joke society – find one with a brain who isn’t some skinny silicone skank – in the end this stuff is boring – you’ll learn when you’ve already had it all. – desires must be fulfilled and then dropped with knowledge – (Rasputin… who did actually have major powers “siddhis” and screamed at a christian priest to go out and sin – god rejects weenies).

    Oh yeah… don’t be a neurotic “hygeine” faggot – it doesn’t work.

  4. I had forgotten about Ralph and weev. Ralph is a fat tub of shit and weev is a subversive jew.

  5. Believing the pua grift is like mistaking Pornhub for a documentary website. A newbie/greenhorn error.

    1. That’s a great analogy.

  6. […] I Hate the Modern Internet Part 1: Cyan Pillers DMV the HB10 Negging with Alpha Pills on the Beta Ye… […]

  7. It’s clear to me that feminism and rape hysteria on one end, and Mgtow, PUA, and porn on the other end has essentially destroyed men and women, and this is why no men approach women anymore.

  8. “since RSD went in their new direction as life coaches.”

    That’s certainly one way to put “a bunch of the guys went to prison for gangraping a drunk girl”.
    The funny thing is that most “mainstream” like Strauss were actually pretty open about having terrible conversion rates from approaches to actual sex. And everybody who pretended something else was either a scammer or was working another angle (fake castings, drug dealing).

    1. Wow about RSD. As for the terrible conversion rates, Roosh was also pretty honest about that. The guy basically struck out all over the world, then told you that you needed game to get his results.

  9. […] the start of this series I promised to bring a takedown of Vox Day’s “Smegma Male Sociosexual […]

Leave a reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

More in e-drama